[NNTP] Re: New NNTP drafts approaching IETF Last Call

[Mark Crispin]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
>>  2) have some wording such as what section 4.3.1 in IMAP has, e.g.
>> 	Article texts MAY contain 8-bit or multi-octet characters,
>> 	but SHOULD do so when the [CHARSET] is identified via
>> 	[MIME-IMB] and/or [MIME-HDRS].
> This is a Usefor issue, not an NNTP issue.

IMAP didn't get away with that argument, and NNTP should not be allowed to 
get away with it either.

I strongly suggest that you read (and understand) RFC 2130.

>> We need a very strong SHOULD here that
>> it should be UTF-8 and/or [MIME-HDRS] compliant for server responses,
> We're talking about material transferred over Usenet. There is no way to
> enforce it. The wording was written that way for very good reason.

There is most definitely a way to enforce it.

Once NNTPv2 is a standards-track RFC, compliance with NNTPv2 becomes part 
of procurement RFPs.  The server may not be able to do anything about 
garbage from outside, but it very well can control generation of its own 
garbage.

>> and
>> a MUST for client postings (that is, a client which complies with this
>> specification MUST either use UTF-8 or [MIME-HDRS]).
> This "must" will be completely and utterly ignored.

Bullshit.  Servers are fully capable of rejecting postings from 
non-compliant clients, and very well might decide to do this with the 
express purpose of killing those clients (or at least forcing them to be 
fixed).

>> This is adequate weasel-wording for old software while setting a good
>> future direction.
> This isn't "old software", it's the entire world. The current news article
> standard isn't MIME- or UTF-8 conformant,

This is one of the many broken aspects of NNTP that need to be fixed. 
That's the whole point of this exercise.

> and vast areas of the world use
> ISO 8859-n BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT THING.

I am appalled that any document editor would say such a thing.  If you 
really believe this, then please resign and allow someone who is willing 
to follow IETF policy to take your place.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.