ietf-nntp Draft 20 pre-release 2

Rob Siemborski rjs3 at andrew.cmu.edu
Fri Oct 10 08:34:28 PDT 2003


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:

> Rob Siemborski said:
> >> I don't understand your vehemence here. We agreed a month or so back that
> >> security issues were different and caching had to be thought through
> >> carefully in that respect.
> > As Russ noted, I wasn't a part of those discussions.
>
> Okay, I thought it was said you were lurking.

I intermittantly read this list, I didn't notice the problem until Ken
pointed me at the final document.

> > My vehimence is because I suspect that the current text is open to wild
> > misinterpretation.  I suspect even if you fix it for "some caching is
> > okay and some cachinmg is never ok" it will still be likely to be confused
> > in dangerous ways.
>
> Do you still feel that way about the pre-3 text?

I think there is some improvement here, yes.  Of course, I continue to be
nervous about the SHOULD/MUST issue:

MUST NOT rely on any cached results from this command remaining correct

followed by (in reference to security/privacy):

SHOULD NOT rely on the (cached) results of any previous check

> I don't think we can just not mention caching at all. And once we've
> mentioned it at all, we should be comprehensive. If we just say "do not
> cache security information" that implies it's safe to cache anything else.
>
> I gave three points which I felt described the consensus view. Do you
> agree or disagree with them? Here they are again:
>
> * Some people want caching of common capabilities while others see it as a
> waste of time. Therefore a client MAY cache.
>
> * Servers make absolutely no guarantees. Therefore you MUST NOT rely on the
> cached information; you can only use it to drive heuristics.
>
> * Security is a whole different kettle of fish. It's a really really bad
> idea to cache knowledge about security capabilities rather than checking
> each time. This is, at least, a SHOULD NOT matter if not a MUST NOT matter.

These three points seem to reflect the general feeling of the group, yes.

-Rob

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Rob Siemborski | Andrew Systems Group * Research Systems Programmer
PGP:0x5CE32FCC | Cyert Hall 207 * rjs3 at andrew.cmu.edu * 412.268.7456
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